Why or why not?
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ZimbabweJesus |
Hiroshima and Nagasaki |
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Do you believe the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified?
Why or why not? ~150 lbs of Jewish fury
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umaeril |
Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki | ||
ZimbabweJesus |
Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki | ||
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What other ways?
I personally agree with you, but I like playing devil's advocate. An invasion certainly would have ended up with just as many human losses, and many of them American. But I voted Richard Pryor ~150 lbs of Jewish fury
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umaeril |
Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki | ||
Haryuu no hanekata |
Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki | ||
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I voted maybe. Personally, I felt it should have been dropped in Germany. Closer to Hitler's places, if not on him (Since he started the whole thing, and was going to build a nuke hmself,) but eh, it was enough to get them to stop in the Pacific and scare the shit out of everyone else. Shame it happened to civilians that really didn't deserve it.
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GoldenRoya |
Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki | ||
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The dropping of the bomb occurred on August 6 (Hiroshima) and August 9 (Nagasaki). V-E day (Victory in Europe day) was May 8th. The first testing of an atomic bomb at the Trinity site in New Mexico didn't occur until July 16. Therefore, it couldn't have been used effectively in Europe. It wasn't ready.
Political background: Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR), who had been the president since his inauguration in January 1933 (the same month that Hitler took power, by coincidence) and was the only president in US history to be elected to four terms in office, died on April 12, 1945, leaving behind the running of the biggest war this world had ever seen to his vice president, Harry S. Truman. Poor Harry inherited a war on two fronts (Japan and the Pacific on the west and Hitler and the Axis powers on the east). Upon his inauguration, he was also swamped with information that only the president was allowed to know; one of these little tidbits being the ultra-secret Manhattan Project. It's like, "Welcome to the Oval Office, Mr. President. By the way, we've got the most destructive force on the planet being built right here in the US. What do you want us to do with it?" A tad overwhelming for your first day, dontcha think? Anyhow, Truman had been keeping his finger on all of the war reports, learning exactly what had been happening and what was projected to happen. The victory in Europe was pretty much inevitable at that point, but Japan was another matter. We'd chased them out of the Pacific, but the next step in the war was to attack them on their home soil. We couldn't NOT; they'd attacked us first (Dec. 7, 1945), caused us far too many casualties, and were still far too imperialistic for their own good. The fear was that if we didn't crush them for good, they'd just start conquoring again within five years. Not something we wanted; the Philippines had been in our possession since 1901, Guam since 1898. They were important ports for us in the Pacific; a great deal of our trade depended on these territories, both of which the Japanese had captured over the course of WWII. Have you ever heard of the Bataan Death March? 1942. Japanese decided to move 75,000 American POW's and Filipino nationals to a different camp. They were force-marched 100 kilometers, on little rations, no water, under threat of beatings and death, in suffocating heat beneath a tropical sun that the US soldiers at least were not accustomed to. If any fell behind or begged for mercy, water, shade, food, anything, he was killed - either shot, bayonetted or beheaded. For the last leg, some of them were stuffed into boxcars as tight or tighter than Hitler's famous transport of the Jews and most of those suffocated to death. 54,000 arrived at the camps alive. 21,000 killed in approximately a week. That little Death March of theirs kinda poisoned any sympathy the US might have towards the Japanese. Now I'm not saying that revenge is a good reason to do anything, but back then, I'm sure it figured pretty heavily into their decision. Besides, we'd been fighting the Japanese for two-and-a-half, three years. We knew how ruthless they were. Guerilla tactics were one of their specialties. They weren't afraid of death, and one would gladly sacrifice himself to protect his country and his personal honor - kamikaze pilots ring a bell? They tortured any soldiers they captured, in the most hideous ways. And they knew the country; our soldiers didn't. They were sitting ducks. Casualty projections for a direct ground assault of Japan itself were in the millions. We would win, the Japanese didn't have enough resources to repel a full-scale invasion (or so they thought, I'm not sure what their numbers were), but it would take another year and the cost in resources and human life were intolerable. So thoughts turned to the Manhattan project and the nearly-completed atomic bombs, of which there were three. The first one was detonated at the Trinity site in New Mexico, to prove that it would work. Nobody knew how much power and destruction it would unleash; there are pictures of men walking around ground zero with nothing on but shoe protectors to shield them from the fallout. Radiation wasn't all that well understood back then. They chose the targets carefully. Hiroshima was an army depot and port, ideal for the dropping of the first bomb, to both put the fear of god into the Japanese and to take out some of their resources should it come to a ground assault. The Americans expected prompt surrender from the Japanese emperor following the destruction of Hiroshima. When it wasn't forthcoming, they decided, three days later, to drop the final bomb. They feared the Japanese, and what they could do to "our boys." That fear prompted their action. The second target was to have been another city (the name escapes me) but due to heavy cloud cover disrupting visibility from the air, Nagasaki was chosen to recieve the second bomb. Looking at things from the perspective in which the events happened, I have to say that yes, we were justified. We can't judge the people of that era from what we now know some sixty years later. Things don't work like that. I wish we hadn't; I wish to god that Einstein had just kept his stupid idea to himself and never told anyone about the immense power that might come from splitting the atom. But I can't, in good conscience, condemn the men of the past for making what they thought was the best decision at the time. Without failure, how can man appreciate success? Without loss, how can man value gain? Without hard work, how can man know the joy of striving? Without despair, how can man understand hope? Perfection only serves to kill itself and sheltering your children merely robs from them the richness that life has to offer. Without death, life means nothing. Without sin, what meaning virtue? |
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umaeril |
Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki | ||
GoldenRoya |
Hiroshima and Nagasaki | ||
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Well, it's a controversial opinion to hold. If, as in my case, you believe that we were justified in dropping the bomb, then you'd damn well better be able to back up that opinion with plenty of facts. Otherwise a crucifixion with your name on it usually isn't too far off. (I've learned THAT the hard way.)
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Crazy Dave Number 23 |
Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki | ||
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Really it's just a moral issue of
Wiping out civilians to force a surrender vs. more military casualties |
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Zurtok |
Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki | ||
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I believe that a nation in war has a valid and vested interest in keeping it's own people alive. It is only in the last couple of centuries that we have developed this style of war where two armies meet gloriously on the battlefeild and clash in steel and fire to eradicate only the opposing force. Through much of the history of war it was typical to kill everyone of the opposing side until they gave up, it was completely brutal.
Do I agree with the brutality? Well, not really, war is typically brought on by people wanting more then they have. In this case, Japan attacked the U.S., and they got whuped for it. I feel sorry for the civilians, but at the same time how many Americans would have died to save the civilians of the other side? In War a country must make certain economical decisions. This was one of them. And, quite frankly, if it hadn't been the nuclear bomb, there was a progamme already in place to use thousands of bats on Hiroshima and Nagasaki...bats with napalm straped to them. All in all, I must say that war is brutal, and that doing what is best for YOU is sometimes neccisary. This is one of them. The entire world had already lost huge amounts of people, and the war just needed to end, this was the way it had to happen, or it would've dragged on for another few months at the VERY least, more likely another year or two. And, it would have likely been the same kind of war we are fighting in Iraq now, but without the help of some of the people living there. How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live. -Henry David Thoreau Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail. -Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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