World War 1 (A history lesson)

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Longrange1

Re: World War 1 (A history lesson)

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Posts: 723

(11/23/03 13:01:13)

I haven't forgotten, I just have a distinct lack of free time.

It looks like I might get 4 days off for Thanksgiving and I'll attempt to catch up then.

I need uninterrupted time to do this, ten and fifteen minutes at a time doesnt give enough time to organize and paraphrase my thoughts and sources.

Warren

Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington

umaeril

Re: World War 1 (A history lesson)

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Posts: 36509

(11/23/03 18:16:33)

«(1ik35 1uN4Ri5' Pi3)»
«{{((- Oneiros -))}}»
«´¨`·.ezSlob.·´¨`»

awww take your time Warren. i was just watching the LoTR commentaries and how some of what Tolkein wrote was informed by his experiences in WWI. like the dead marshes were based on how he saw the dead soldiers staring up from under the water. really chilling stuff.

Longrange1

Re: World War 1 (A history lesson)

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Posts: 723

(11/30/03 01:47:11)

The primary actions of The Treaty of Versailles

Links to the full text of the treaty and the articles of the formation of The League of Nations, can be found here.

Germany was defined as the loser and instigator of WW1.
As such the treaty concessions were all loses to Germany and gains for the allies.

Alsace-Lorraine taken from France in 1871, was given back.

Eupen, Moresñet, St. Vith and Malmedy were given to Belgium.

Northern Schleswig was given to Denmark.

The west of the Rhineland and 50 kms east of the River Rhine was made into a buffer zone (i.e no military personnel or weapons were allowed into this zone), to protect France. The allies were allowed to keep an army on the West bank of the Rhine for 15 years.

The Saarland: a plebiscite by the inhabitants was held to determine which country it belonged to. It voted to be part of Germany (1935), but up until then it sent coal to France. The area of Northern Schleswig also had a plebiscite to decide its fate.

West Prussia (the polish corridor), Posen and Upper Silesia to give Poland access to the sea. This separated the German people in East Prussia from Germany. The port of Danzig was out under the control of the League of Nations and was called the free city. Troppau was given to Czechoslovakia.
Germany also gave some land back to Russia, which had been taken in the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. Some of this land was made into independent states (Lithuania, Estonia, Finland and Latvia); some was also given to Poland. The port of Memel was taken from Germany and put under League of Nations control and was later annexed by Lithuania.

Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia (included Bosnia and Serbia) and Hungary were all formed out of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and thus were created as new nations.
.....................................
Reparations and acceptance of war guilt.
Germany was forced to admit all responsibility for starting the war and all the damages and loss the allied people were subjected to (clause 231), read
The Allied and Associated Governments affirm and Germany accepts the responsibility of Germany and her allies for causing all the loss and damage to which the Allied and Associated Governments and their nationals have been subjected as a consequence of the war imposed upon them by the aggression of Germany and her allies.
This was called the War Guilt.

The German-Austrian union (Anschluss) was forbidden. It also stated that the Kaiser (amongst other German officers, e.g. Tirpitz, Hindenburg, and Ludendorff) should be brought to trial, but the Kaiser had fled to Holland and the Dutch refused to release him.

As Germany had admitted to the War Guilt it had to pay reparations, which were to cover the damages caused by the war. The figure paid was not set until after the treaty and essentially Germany was asked to write a blank check, which the allies could fill in anytime they wanted.

In 1921 the number that was decided on was 132 trillion (132 billion European) gold marks, most of which was suppose to be paid to France and Belgium (because they faced the most destruction). The money was to be paid in goods or cash, but it was money that Germany simply didnt have.
...........................

Germanys overseas colonies were taken away and given to the Allies.
AUSTRALIA was given Nauru, New Guinea and the Northern Solomons.

BELGIUM was given Burundi and Rwanda.

FRANCE was given Cameroon and Eastern Togo.

GREAT BRITAIN was given Tanganyika, North Cameroon, South Cameroon and Western Togo.

JAPAN was given Kiaochow, the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, the Northern Marianas and Palau.

NEW ZEALAND was given Western Samoa.

SOUTH AFRICA was given Namibia.
.........................
Armed Forces
A strict limit was imposed on the size of Germanys army to stop any future attack. Its military was restricted to 10,000 men and conscription was not allowed. It had to destroy all its air force, and was not allowed to manufacture any military aircraft, tanks, submarines, heavy artillery or poison gas. The German navy was reduced to: six battleships, six light cruisers, twelve destroyers, and twelve torpedo boats. Germany also had to build ships for the Allies. Germany gave its merchant fleet to Great Britain.
.........................
The League of Nations
The League of Nations was formed (in Geneva) to solve international problems. The League would also have protected each other if one of them were invaded. The league had four permanent members to begin with: Great Britain, France, Italy and Japan. The League of Nations failed to stop ww2 and therefore was dissolved after the war in 1946 (but was replaced by the United Nations)
........................
Next, the effects of the treaty.
Warren

Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington

Longrange1

Re: World War 1 (A history lesson)

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Posts: 723

(11/30/03 11:18:19)

Some of the following were direct results of the war and not the treaty, but the effects are intertwined and hard to separate.
There was a massive direct cost to all nations involved in WWI resulting in the effect that nations previously lender nations became debtor nations. The financial center of the world shifted from Europe and Great Britain to the US, increasing the economic strength of the US.
European living standards fell and European countries had to cut down on imports because of a lack of a stable European currency. Worldwide markets shrunk and established trade patterns were disrupted.

Intense hatred between the two sides meant that is was impossible to reestablish previous trading patterns in the short term and few saw beyond the short term, therefore most politicians sought revenge, and not the recovery of the defeated states (this was also the result of popular opinion).
..........................
The reparations problem.
There were divisions among the allies on this subject and countries were relying on reparations to finance reconstruction. This resulted in the delaying of reparation payments, which meant the delaying of the reconstruction process.

The Germans did not believe such reparations could ever be paid, especially with its post-war losses of territory and the wealth that such territory brought.

Reparation payments did little to help the recovery of the allies.

Reparations contributed to inter-war period tensions.

Britain and France linked war debts and reparations and refused to pay war debts until reparations were paid to them further destabilizing the general economy of Europe.

......................
IMO:

A German economy, already weaken by material losses and heavy war financing, was already suffering from inflation and the resulting devaluation of its currency. Germany was forced to accept conditions that resulted in even more inflation as the German government printed money to cover its debts.

An attitude of punishment by the Allies forced conditions on Germany that were seen as humiliating. The hyperinflation, massive unemployment and general humiliation that followed the treaty, fomented civil unrest and the conditions that were ripe for what was to follow, (the rise of the Nazis and WW2).

........................

Next,
Civil unrest in Germany and the rise of the Nazis.

Warren

Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington

umaeril

Re: World War 1 (A history lesson)

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Posts: 36509

(12/01/03 19:54:36)

«(1ik35 1uN4Ri5' Pi3)»
«{{((- Oneiros -))}}»
«´¨`·.ezSlob.·´¨`»

Quote:
Armed Forces
A strict limit was imposed on the size of Germanys army to stop any future attack. Its military was restricted to 10,000 men and conscription was not allowed. It had to destroy all its air force, and was not allowed to manufacture any military aircraft, tanks, submarines, heavy artillery or poison gas. The German navy was reduced to: six battleships, six light cruisers, twelve destroyers, and twelve torpedo boats. Germany also had to build ships for the Allies. Germany gave its merchant fleet to Great Britain.

do include a little bit on how Germany recovered their military might in so short a time under these circumstances. i would find that interesting.

this was a very good chapter.

tonterias

Re: World War 1 (A history lesson)

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Posts: 81

(02/27/04 21:00:41)

This is in contrast to the standard erroneous version
of the GErmans being solely responsible for starting
this conflict.
Which of course is nonsense.
The British,French and the Russians were all equally responsible for this catastrophe thruogh their alliances
and treaties.
Some of the farsighted among them had predicted this
conflict years before it happened.
They knew it was only going to be a matter of time
before someone would set the fuse to an already volatile
situation.
It was only by chance that it didn't happen sooner.

btw there were some among the allies who wanted to
to have the kaiser tried as a war criminal.
Now that would have been a real example of scapegoating
if it happened.
Fortunatley for the German emperor he fled to Holland before
it could happen.

What other's peoples beliefs are is their own business, until
they make it mine.

H.L.

umaeril

Re: World War 1 (A history lesson)

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Posts: 36509

(02/27/04 21:07:53)

«(1ik35 1uN4Ri5' Pi3)»
«{{((- Oneiros -))}}»
«´¨`·.ezSlob.·´¨`»

Welcome to the board tonterias.

to post in Vox Populi you must read the rules and then post in this thread that you have read them. Thank you!

Loveable Bitch

Re: World War 1 (A history lesson)

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Posts: 1750

(09/18/05 05:02:18)

(Side note - I studied History at university and I love these kidns of discussions. Also I grew up in Germany.)

Some one above mentioned about why Germany and Austria wanted to unite. That is correct but there is also more to this.

The unification of Germany in 1871 was a rather difficult time in Germany partly because it was hard to decide what Germany actually compromised. German speaking population was not only Prussia, Bavaria and also the other parts that are now Germany but what is now Austria. Therefore two plans were suggested to solve the problem: Gross Deutschland (Large Germany) and Klein Deutschland (Small Germany). The first would include Austria and the second was the one exluding Austria.

Although it seemed that the problems had been solved before the world wars, there will still people who felt they should have been combined. Therefore it was important to support Austria in the crisis of 1914. You could take that even further and suggest that that is the reason that no one complained when Hitler took over Austria in the lead up to the 2nd World War.

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